2004-03-30 [Daryl]: Greetings and salutations, all friends. Name's Daryl; added myself to the member's page. I'll be doing some serius commenting on those names above mine in the list... as soon as I'm done marking these umpteen million papers! Probably by the weekend... in any case, a quick question for you, HiddenFire. I find the Propositions page easily enough; is there a separate rules page, that is buried somewhere else?

2004-03-30 [HiddenFire]: no the rules on this page are all there is thus far. was anything unclear?

2004-03-30 [Daryl]: Not particularly. There were a few points that suggested checking with the rules, and the one point that says "Make sure you read the rules before going and commenting on another's site" sort of implies that there is a list of rules somewhere... this may be a case of Author based writing versus Reader based writing, but I really don't know where I'm being directed to by that statement. On the other hand, it could just be that I read rules and they were filed into my brain as common sense....

2004-03-30 [HiddenFire]: i think the rules must have, as you suggested, been filed as common sense. They are just right above the link to Comment Exchange Propositionsand thats all that is required right now. members can add their own specific stipulations to the rules such as the amount of time it might take to return the favor, which images or stories will be worth more, whether or not they give out all CC's, that sort of thing.

2004-03-30 [Daryl]: Understood; thank you kindly.

2004-03-31 [Erthalos]: Your propositions are good I think. But about you're 4th rule. Don't get angry about it. As far as I'm concerned, I'll state it in my next update, and it's not for tomorrow !!

2004-03-31 [HiddenFire]: I understand, don't worry about my getting angry or offended, i am a very laid back person. you can actually update just your bio and it w does not require a ticket. if it is only your bio you have changed then it goes through in a matter of seconds.

2004-04-01 [Daryl]: indeed, but then you can't update for X days.... at least, it wouldn't let me!

2004-04-01 [HiddenFire]: strange. i did it at least three or four times before the time was up. that is odd.

2004-04-01 [Ocean Dreaming]: It's not odd at all. If you change only the online data it doesn't require a ticket therefore does not fall under the ticket rule. If however you upload something (even a replacement with one typo fixed), it becomes a ticket because material needs to be reviewed.

2004-04-01 [Erthalos]: Oh, I didn't know all these details...

2004-04-03 [Erthalos]: I updated my bio, indeed, it doesn't need a ticket, and it also doesn't block your tickets ^^

2004-04-03 [Po]: Hi! Just wanted to announce my presence on the list! :D I usually preview my pics on in my house here before they get through the queue, so feel free to peek for any I haven't got on my gallery yet! (BTW, I think this is a killer idea!)

2004-04-04 [Erthalos]: I've got a question. A question which may get on some people's nerves. But what is the maximal amount of time acceptable between the moment you comment on someone's gallery, and the moment this person comment on yours ?

2004-04-04 [HiddenFire]: honestly? there isnt one as of yet. myself i put them off until i have a good amount of time to go through their galleries. in otherwords dont worry too much if you have to wait a few weeks. though it is better for the image of this wiki if we where all to return the favor as soon as possible.

2004-04-22 [smiles200105]: hallo - just sticking my head through the door. As well as being new to the wiki i'm also kinda new to elftown ( been a member for ages but this is basically the first time i've used it! is there a way I can have this wiki on a list for easy access 'cos I don't know how I'm going to find it again!

2004-04-22 [HiddenFire]: near the bottom of the page are some buttons, one says 'start watching this wiki' which means everytime someone comments or changes the page you will be notified by a link. the other is 'add this page to your notes' both would allow you to access this page by viewing your notes. that can be found as a button at the top of every page. also if you add this page to your notes you are given the option of showing the link of every page.

2004-04-23 [smiles200105]: Great, thanx muchly. Elftown is such a weird place to navigate!

2004-05-02 [WarChiefFanguan]: hello everyone! Good job making one of the top 10 wikis of the month of april!

2004-05-02 [HiddenFire]: now that just totaly rocks! perhaps now we can really make a difference! with such a great publicity our membership should begin to climb. *crosses fingers* i am practically bubbling over with pride! ^_^

2004-05-03 [smiles200105]: lol - congratulations

2004-05-10 [choccygirl]: HEY PPPLLLLLL

2004-05-10 [choccygirl]: well done 4 makin it 2 the top 10 wiki page... i dnt evn no how 2 make a wiki!

2004-05-10 [HiddenFire]: CNETG9 pretty much explains it all. and very well too. if you are interesting in makign wiki you can ask myself or any one of the wiki bosses. the wiki bosses can point you in the right direction.

2004-05-11 [Ocean Dreaming]: We generally do the pointing to that page as well as the other wiki help pages then tell you to ask if someone on those is unclear though ;) CNETG9 is actually about as clear as is humanly possible. Xith did a great job on her guide ^-^

2004-06-07 [shotokan_gal]: This is a great idea! I've always made a habit of returning comments anyway. Just plain politeness really! But perhaps it'll be easier now...

2004-07-07 [HiddenFire]: that is actually the whole idea behind this. I know that a great many artists allready do this, now more people will realize it and be more apt to comment. Like I said up there, it's all about incentive. ^_^

2004-07-16 [shotokan_gal]: Heh, I only just remembered it would be a good idea to put a link to this place on my page today (duh me). Had a thought though, don't know if its already been suggested. I'm not a wiki banner type person really, but if you had one (optional...) for this, do you think perhaps more people would find out about it and join? Ya know, when theres a huge picture next to a link, rather than just a link, it tends to look slightly more interesting. Though I'm not personally a fan of huge wiki banners, especially houses full of them. I'd think the more people a part of this the better no?

2004-07-17 [HiddenFire]: I do want banners for people's ET houses. I am not sure if that is what your suggesting. it sounds like you're saying we should put up examples of peoples artwork next to the links. That, i do not like. Then it would become a contest. right now we are all equal, and the writers would have no such images to put up. I want a banner... I'm just not sure what I want. I could start a competition and award the person a CC on every piece in their gallery as the prize. it's just a thought.

2004-07-17 [shotokan_gal]: Oh no no. Just a banner. To advertise the wiki as a whole, not the individual members. A logo type thing would be nice, like that one the contructive criticism wiki has. Though different of course.

2004-07-17 [HiddenFire]: that we can manage.

2004-07-27 [HiddenFire]: Sill fill forcing far, I invite you all to Berry Wine Bar! ^_^

2004-07-27 [Shoshi]: when you edit the members page it says you should split the page into seperate pages, since it's quite big. How about a page for artists and a page for writers, so people who are looking for a certain kind of comment know where to go?

2004-07-27 [HiddenFire]: I might consider that, but that warning is more than a little deceptive. If It comes to it then I'll cut it up based off of the number of memebers. The size of the page also takes into account all previous versiosn of the page. such pages where there are constant changes make the red text appear prematurely. I'll probably still break it up though. But I am against breaking it into writers and artists... writers are neglected enough without putting them in their own section and basically fencing them off. If someone can convince me that it is in their best enterests to do so, I may listen. thanks. ^_^

2004-07-28 [Kiddalee]: But as it is, you can't even see who the writers are. If there are 2 links, one having "Writers" written on it, those of us who are writers will finally know where to go and not have to search the entire members page for writers. It's quite tedious to have to load several artists pages just to see if they have a "story" link.

2004-07-28 [HiddenFire]: i suppose that no matter what people will comment on what they want to... but if a writer comments on an artist, the artist MUST still comment back on their work, no matter what... I might get around to that in a while. That's a big undertaking... I just don't want to feel like I am discriminating against anyone. in my eyes, we're all equal... that and i like the numbering of the members just how they are... I would rather not break them up... perhaps if I where to stick a thing out to the side saying [artist] or [writer]. *shrugs*

2004-07-29 [Kiddalee]: That would make it easier. After all, not all artists are the type of person to give a very in-depth comment on a written work. You're not making anyone lesser by separating them. Whoever heard of artism?

2004-07-29 [HiddenFire]: people are baised though. As any writer can tell you, people DO NOT LIKE TO READ! so they are more likely to comment on artists... I'll get around to it eventually. ^_^

2004-07-29 [Kiddalee]: I like to read. ;P

2004-07-29 [HiddenFire]: yeah... but you're wierd. ;P

2004-07-31 [Kiddalee]: Eh? Was that a comment of artism?

2004-07-31 [HiddenFire]: don't worry... I'm wierd too... but that doesn't mean I like to read. o.0 if it makes you feel better to think that I am an evil biased person then *shrugs* whatever makes you feel better. Honestly, at first I didn't want this to include writers but when I realized how horribly neglected writers where I found that my complaining that I hadn't recieved a comment in the last 5 days was frivelous whining. I saw the light. I still don't like to read but I stand by my claim that I will return the favor no matter who it is, artist or writer. My issue is that I don't have the time to sit down and read anymore. nor do I have the patience... frankly I don't know how people find the time to write!

2004-08-01 [Ocean Dreaming]: We do, because we MAKE the time for it ;)

2004-08-01 [HiddenFire]: who would have thought it would be something as simple as that? ;)

2004-08-02 [Kiddalee]: we MAKE the time for it... Actually, I rather hate when people say that and don't say how.

2004-08-02 [smiles200105]: Artists also make time to draw and paint. Is there really a difference? People will forever be busy. I am an artist and do enjoy reading, but I don't really have the time to read through elfwood writers work. It does take a lot of time and I want to ensure that my time is well spent. I always worry that afterall the time I have spent reading someone's work wasn't worth it. Not everyone is a Tolkien or Rowling afterall.

2004-08-02 [HiddenFire]: that is basically what I'm talkinng about. and with art it only takes a glace to tell the person isn't a Rembrant. *shrugs* People now-a-days have no attention span, they want everything now. that's my theory, anyway, for why writers are neglected. very few can sit still long enough to read that much, and the ones that can sit still do not have the time. *shrugs* they're just theories though.

2004-08-02 [Kiddalee]: But the point of commenting isn't just to glance and determine whether you're dealing with a masterpeice. The point is to look and read carefully and talk about the finer elements of a work. If someone only wants to earn comments from an artist, he probably isn't willing to go very deep into the story gallery that he was surprised to reach anyways.

2004-08-02 [HiddenFire]: That is also true. How else will a writer become better if we do not give them advice? tell them what we liked? what we disliked?

2004-08-02 [Kiddalee]: Another thing: What if a writer gets so sick of clicking on links and not finding another library that they just comment on the next visual artist they find, and that artist has to return their comment as a policy, but what if that artist doesn't have what it takes to comment on written work?

2004-08-02 [HiddenFire]: That is also a possibility. I am no writer, nor do I read a large amount... or a small amount for that matter. So my comments are usually "I really liked it, this part here was a little awkward... it confused me a little. This character amuses me, but this other one seems rather 2d... you can't really do that with a sword... I want to strangle the bad guy with my feet because he doesn't diserve my hands... etc..." I would assume that anyone could at least offer that much. But I might be giving my own species too much credit. *shrugs*

2004-08-02 [smiles200105]: I do try and comment on writers. Ofcourse I do return comments to writers. I can't remember the last time i went through elfwood and did a proper commenting spree. I just don't have the time, especially not for writers. It is sad.

2004-08-02 [Kiddalee]: I find fishing for comments enjoyable, though it would be nice if I got returns, which I have been lately.

2004-08-03 [HiddenFire]: I think that people are finally beginning to realize that the reason that the number of comments in EW is decreasing is because no one wants to comment. That should be a logical thing to assume but it is also possible that they did not think that they where part of the problem. Of course if we all think that someone else will do the commenting, then no one will. Perhaps people are finally starting to see that. *shrugs*

2004-08-03 [shotokan_gal]: The number of comments is decreasing? How on earth would you know that? But to but into this discussion slightly (oh I'm so rude..!). To answer something along the lines of 'what if that artist doesn't have what it takes to comment on written work'. Well, you can be a writing critic without being a writer of novels, just as you can be an art critic without knowing how to draw/paint whatever (just look at the mainstream...). For that matter, I've got just as many one word / 'useless' comments from people who were (apparantly) artists themselves. (Including when I made quite an effort on their galleries at times, which pissed me off somewhat)

2004-08-03 [shotokan_gal]: I think it just depends on the persons own qualities. I don't think you can really class them all that well (other than writing something like - 'I can respond with most useful criticism to artists/writers' (delete as applicable) next to your name on the members page. Which might be overcomplicating things. I personally can't give as good responses to written work as I can to art, but I still don't consider my comments there completely pointless!

2004-08-03 [shotokan_gal]: I'm rambling... sorry. Must be to do with my mood. *goes back to hide in my hole in the ground*

2004-08-03 [Kiddalee]: what if that artist doesn't have what it takes to comment on written work... Note the what if. And though I'm generalizing, there is a greater chance of it with artists than with other writers. Also, what if a writer doesn't have what it takes to comment on visual art? There are some out there.

2004-08-03 [HiddenFire]: I decided the number of comments where decreasing actually. I noticed it in my own gallery and I have noticed it friends galleries and I have listend/read many complaints about the lack of comments. *shrugs* I made an assumption based off of the evidence I was provided.

2004-08-03 [HiddenFire]: ANYONE can comment on written work and art. unless your IQ is so low that can't string together coherent sentences then you can comment on anything. "What it takes" is just the ability to know how each piece effected you, what you liked, what you disliked, and (to some degree) why. I do not know what it is like to be a moron, so I wouldn't know the mindset of the "cool pics" commentors. I would assume that anyone with at least the lowest of average intelligence should be able to provide you with a good comment. A writer may not be able to say things like: "if you turn your pencil on it's side you should be able to..." or "if you use these colors and a colorless blending tool you will get..."

2004-08-03 [HiddenFire]: ...but they can still say "I didn't like the choice of colors for the... if you had used..." or "that arm has anatomy issues, if it where...". likewise an artist might not be able to say "if you use this or that perspective it might bring this or that point across..." or "if you used this wording then it would give it a better sense of motion..." or "if your plot structure was this way then it would..." but they can say things like "the fight scene was too detailed and confusing, make it more vague ang generalized." or "The fact that two difference characters call the same character by different names confused me at first, perhaps that should be explained further."

2004-08-03 [HiddenFire]: if my definition of "what it takes" is, in any way, off do not hesitate to correct em. Perhaps I have more faith in people than I should, perhaps my expectations are unreasonable... but it doesn't really seem so to me.

2004-08-03 [shotokan_gal]: With regards to the whole number of comments thing, I'd never actually noticed. But perhaps thats because my gallery, well, its not particularly in the mainstream. I'm not one of the mods-choic well known artists. Nearly all (with a very few exceptions) of the comments on my gallery are from artists who I've commented on first. Its my opinion that you get out of commenting what you put in (well, in a proportional sense anyway. Its actually in general pretty inefficient, but what can you do?).

2004-08-03 [Ocean Dreaming]: With regards to the commenting differences between writers -> art and artists -> written works. There's one difference you failed to mention. Mostly ANYONE can point out how to correct spelling and grammar faults (a lot of people make them). But NOT everyone can say why they think anatomy is off. In that sense - it IS harder for writers to leave CC on artwork. Simply because a lot of us can't go beyond 'this is wrong'. With grammar and spelling you can say 'it should be this'. Minor differences, but still differences. I've found that both parties don't like commenting on the others though. Unless they do both. Your expectations aren't unreasonable in general. It's the way it is.

2004-08-03 [Ocean Dreaming]: People are just lazy like that. It's why this is such a good idea. ^-^ Well, mainly. I think. My experience is that, even amongst Elfwoodians, writers are more solidary and offering critique in their comments. Not sure why, though. Just might be an interesting tidbit of information. ^-^

2004-08-04 [Avaz]: Could be perhaps because it involves some sort of writing as well?

2004-08-04 [Kiddalee]: Often when I'm commenting on stories I leave the actual story page open so I can correctly use my references. That habit carried on to visual art. Also (and I'm just guessing), I've noticed that I'd rather do visual art when I can't hold my attention on writing. Drawing a concept can be very fast, even though skill takes more time. Maybe artists have a shorter attention span? Just throwing something in the air.

2004-08-06 [Ocean Dreaming]: I have an attention span of 0, and I write. On the worst days - I don't get much further than half a paragraph. ^-^;

2004-08-07 [Ocean Dreaming]: If you're wondering why I unjoined - I currently don't have the time to live up to the ideal. I will always try, but due to circumstances I've already limited myself to commenting on people who leave CC only. A drastic measure, but needed. As such, I cannot uphold the ideal as I would like.

2004-08-07 [HiddenFire]: That's fine, I admit I was a little... suprised to see my first member drop out... but I understand. ^_^

2004-08-07 [Ocean Dreaming]: I'll be back if I can find the time to live up to the/(my) ideal of CFC. ^-^

2004-08-14 [Kiddalee]: I was a member for only a couple of days until I realized what I was getting myself into. I prefer to pay back comments based on the amount of reading involved, and only if the comment is useful.

2004-08-15 [HiddenFire]: That's fine, I must admit that it is HARD to keep it up somtimes. At least I didn't make it a comment for comment system or I would go insane. I just can't bring myself to posting "cool pics" comments and I would hate to have to give some good and meaningful comments to someone who could stoop so low as to say "cool pics". The hardest time I ever had (when I wanted to quit the most) was when I got that mods choice on my Frog Fae... No offense to the artists who commented on me but that was a ton of work... I spread it out over the course of a month so I would not get grumpy and leave "grump-influenced" comments. o.0

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: Ok, it seems as if a few members got together and made a EW tour dedicated to us. Although I am glad that members want to get involved, i REALLY WANTED TO DO THAT! T_T but that aside, I have no problem with it except that not every member is listed, I have no idea what their criteria are, I don't know why they chose who they did. If someone would clear this up for me I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to make a tour but I've never made one before and I don't know if they're readily editable or not. I don't want to feature members only to have them drop out and I not be able to fix it for a while.

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: I may also have to decide that the number you get when you sign up is the number you're stuck with forever. And when someone drops out their number simply is unoccupied. that way I won't have to shift the images in the tour because someone in a tour named "comment exchange members 1-50" dropped out. The tours would also be created as I reach the number. Of course this may confuse people because that may mean that "Comment Exchange Members 1-50" might only contain 45 (or some other not 50 number). @.@ I would be grateful to hear any feedback on this idea.

2004-09-13 [shotokan_gal]: Ohhh a tour... what a neat idea, never thought of that. Will have to check that out sometime. As for some of your questions, pretty sure tours are editable. At least, you can add things to them, so you should be able to take away, though don't actually have one myself. And sure theres nothing wrong with having two comment exchange tours :p Maybe the members could choose their favourite piece to be the one included too or something...

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: That's what I was thinking, The actual member choosing their own favorite, or we could assemble a small team who would pick what they thought was the best. *shrugs* Because, honestly, how does one choose one of their own pieces? And what I think is my favorite, or what someone else thinks is the best may allready have so many comments that I don't need any one it. @.@ A tour would be nice because it offers a quick and easy way for people to go through a massive number of galleries and leave at least one comment in every gallery (which because of the way this works is the most effecient plan). @.@

2004-09-13 [shotokan_gal]: Well, their favourite, or what they particularly want opinions and comments on... would be up to the individual of course. By the way, whats the name of the tour already up? I can't find it...

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: The name is "The Comment Exchange Tour" by Ingebjørg Hagen Agøy. Indeed, at least giving them the option to choose which they want featured would be nice. Whether or not they want to use it as an oppurtunity to put their best foot forward or to aim to shed light on a rather neglected image would be up to them. That sounds good to me. ^_^

2004-09-13 [shotokan_gal]: oh.... 'the'. I was looking under c for comment (duh). Anyway yeah, idea all looks good, though it might take a while getting round to all the artists and getting replies. Or were you only planning to do a few at a time? (I don't actually remember how many members there are since a few have left...). Either way, if you want/need any help with the organising feel free to gimme a bell. Really quite keen on this :)

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: I was thinking that somewhere between 20 and 50 members would be featured on each tour. I'll see about messaging members to see what they think/want... I think I'll make a new page for the images they want featured so that I don't have to deal with all the messages. @.@ I would drop out if I had to do that. @.@

2004-09-13 [shotokan_gal]: Hehe... that would make a lot more sense wouldn't it. I figured conducting it by email rather than elftown messages, but thats just my personal preference. Not everyone on there logs onto elftown particularly often though. Some of them may just have joined for the comment exchange after all.

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: I know that at least a few of joined ET specifically for the comment exchange. So it might not be a very good way... still it would give me a place to have it recorded and have people do it themselves to save me the trouble. @.@ I could just start by messaging people then, if they don't get back to me in a week or so, send them an email through Elfwood. If their Email for Elfwood is incorrect then it's their fault. *shrugs* I'll have to pick a deadline as well... for when I submit the tour, so I'm not stuck waiting forever for one or two people to add what they want... I suppose in such an occurance I could simply pick for them. *shrugs*

2004-09-13 [shotokan_gal]: If everyone was watching this page you could put up an announcement or something... ask people to submit their url to a new page or something. Wouldn't get everyone but might cut down on the work *shrugs too for the hell of it*

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: *shrugs* LOL. @.@

2004-09-13 [shotokan_gal]: :P i'm just in a randomly helpful chatty mood. Don't mind me.

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: Yeah, we've got 21 people watching this page and almot 70 members. I don't think many are actually watching. @.@

2004-09-13 [shotokan_gal]: Nice of them isn't it... I'm always watching too many damned wikis. Updates wherever you look... its dizzying.

2004-09-13 [HiddenFire]: I watch every page I'm a member of... that adds up, but many of them are dormant for long periods of time, which suits me because their activity usually runs in cycles. @.@

2004-09-14 [smiles200105]: lol - hallo - i'm honestly watching this wiki regularly. I just never seem to have much of use to say ;)

2004-09-14 [Avaz]: Hey guys, whoever has recently (within the past 6 months or so) left me comments, I apologize for not replying to them sooner, as I've been extremely busy to check the extranet. I have tried to reciprocate comments to people who left some to me, but I regret to say I don't have the time to go on my usual comment fests, where I comment on every single picture the other person has. :S

2004-09-15 [shotokan_gal]: <- doesn't have anything of use to say but says it anyway...

2004-09-15 [HiddenFire]: Here's an interesting question... or at least something to think about. I do not currently force people to comment for every comment. They simply must comment on a persons work if they comment on theirs, the number is completely up to them. Now assume a person comments on your artwork, you then comment on theirs. As usually happens they recognise that you have now commented on their artwork and thusly they go back to your artwork and comment on some more stuff. Although this is nice it would quickly get to the point to where there is nothing left to comment on. How do we decide when a group of comments actually counts enough to warrent our comments? In other words, what is the time frame?

2004-09-15 [HiddenFire]: Currently if I comment on someone's artwork and they comment on mine in return I consider the transaction completed. I do not owe them any more comments because I am being "repaid" for mine. Simularly, if someone comments on my work, I comment on theirs, and they come back with more comments I do not return with more comments... unless I think I should (for instance if they comment on a ton of stuff). It's an interesing question... I don't think it really has an answer. What's the difference between the time between their several comments and the time between their last comments and now... It's confusing to think about. @.@

2004-09-15 [Avaz]: I don't think there IS a time frame for that. Personally, I go by who commented. If somebody commented on some pictures in my gallery, I probably returned the favor. Now say they came back 2 months later and commented on other things (not new art), I would not go to their gallery to comment on more things. THe only exception to this, is if they come back to your gallery months later to comment on new art, and they have new art as well. In that case, I go and comment on whatever new things they might have.

2004-09-15 [shotokan_gal]: Hmm well, I usually do the same thing as you said. Visit a persons gallery after they comment on mine, but if I see they're an artist I've already commented on then I'll probably leave it. Like today, got a return from a mods choice artist who I commented on weeks, if not a few months ago. Didn't feel the need to give him any more. But as for the timing thing... that is a bit odd isn't it. If someone came back to my gallery a SECOND time, after a reasonable time frame had passed, then I suppose I'd feel obliged to comment back. I'd probably measure it by how many updates I'd had by that point, assuming they'd be commenting on new pieces they hadn't seen before. But it is a tricky one...

2004-09-15 [HiddenFire]: That's what I'm talking about. Someone comming back some time later and making more comments. I suppose it could be based on whether or not I've updated since then but I don't update that often. I tend to look at a persons newest works first so perhaps if they've updated I might recogize it... but it's not like I record what every person had at the time of my last visit. @.@ It is an interesting situation. *shrugs*

2004-09-15 [shotokan_gal]: I write the order of my updates on my bio part. I think its useful for the commenting thing. But can't really speak for everyone. And why would someone re-visit if you hadn't updated though? If I want to comment on a piece I'll do so the first time I see it generally. If I've got nothing to say, then its left forever commentless (ohh think I just made up a word)...

2004-09-17 [~The Virus~]: Hey, thought I'd just put up a little notice here since there's been a lot of talk about tours. The tour made by me and Elion will change name as soon as the ticket is done. New name: Get Comments! With no links leading back to the comment exchange following HiddenFire's suggestion. So now it's just another tour. Ok? Yosh! Hope you guys get motivated enough to make this official tour you're so excited about, that would be nice. I'm not up to making a tour with 20-50 pictures myself seeing how much work it was to write somewhat interesting descriptions on only 15 pictures. But good luck to you!

2004-09-17 [HiddenFire]: We're going to have members submit which picture they want to feature allong with the text they want to appear on the tour. Or myself or the creator of the tour could simply make up some text... it's quite a bit of work, yes but it should help us out once it gets started. Greatly increase the number of comments on our galleries. ^_^ I think it might be best to do it in parts. Not "Comment Exchange Member 1-20" but instead "Comment Exchange: Part 1" That should make things easier to deal with. ^_^ All I need now is a volunteer to do it all since I won't have the time seeing as I'm moving out to Phoenix in two weeks. @.@

2004-09-17 [shotokan_gal]: Well, I already said I'd help, but its not best to leave it all to me or it won't get started. But yeah, once we're ready to go and that... I'm good :)

2004-09-17 [HiddenFire]: I've got stuff I've got to do at the moment. When I get around to it I'll make a wiki-page for it and start notifying members. @.@

2004-09-17 [shotokan_gal]: cool... well, gimme a bell when you need. I've got this page on watch anyway...

2004-09-27 [HiddenFire]: I'm leaving for Phoenix tomorrow. Chances are I won't be on for quite a while until I find internet access. Wish me luck! Thusly, I won't be able to update things such as the "vew random member" link or even comment on people's artwork. I don't know how long it'll be befoer I get internet access again so bear with me.

2004-09-27 [shotokan_gal]: Good luck! Hope it goes well! We'll try to keep the place tidy if you like ;)

2004-09-28 [Erthalos]: Good luck !! Thanks for all that you did.

2004-10-09 [Li-Ga]: I think it's great to return comments when someone comment on you work, so I've joined too...!!!

2004-10-26 [Demonshire]: where are galleries located, do i have to make my own site to put my picks on or what?

2004-10-26 [HiddenFire]: Comment Exchange Members is where the links to the Elfwood galleries are. You can sign up and all that fun stuff at <URL:http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se>

2004-10-27 [HiddenFire]: Allright members. I've decided that I want to do the tours. But I'm going to need a little help. Firstly, I simply cannot message every single member about it, I'm thinking I'll take some volunteers and they will be assigned numbers to message... unless someone has far too much time on their hands and they want to message all members. *shrugs* what we need is for each member to choose which piece they want featured in the tour, they can only choose one. They can choose it for whatever reason they want, be it becuase it is their favorite or because it gets the least amount of attention. I will devide the tours up as I see fit, I'll figure that out as I start creating them.

2004-10-28 [The Coffee-Prophet]: How bout this one: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/libr/l/i/lidalen/the_journey_part_1.htm.html

2004-10-28 [HiddenFire]: put it in Comment Exchange Members Tour.

2004-11-01 [shotokan_gal]: ohhh yay :) sorry I took so long to respond, I've hardly been online of late. How goes it, might be able to put *some* time in still if ya need?

2004-11-01 [HiddenFire]: Mostly, now I need people to hound down other members and make sure they know about it... and probably ask that they start watching this page! >.<

2004-12-22 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: hey, if you send me something to send to the rest of them I'll do it, there's only, what? 82 of us? ;)

2004-12-24 [HiddenFire]: All we need is a simple message stating that we need members to pick on of their pieces they would like to feature and why, then go to Comment Exchange Members Tour and follow the directions therein. Pretty simple.

2004-12-25 [shotokan_gal]: "hi. You're a member of the Comment exchange wiki. The owner, [HiddenFire] wants to put together one or more elfwood tours of its members. He'd appreciate it if you went to comment exchange members tour, and followed the directions to submit which of your artworks/stories would be featured in the tour. This is to increase the comments on YOUR gallery, so should be beneficial to all. Please take the time. Thankyou"

2004-12-25 [shotokan_gal]: There, how does that sound for a message template?

2004-12-26 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: sound sfun. :)

2004-12-26 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: *sighs* there, all 89 of us (except myself) have receved a thingy saying almost exactly wht you have up there

2004-12-26 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: Now, I'd better not get a notice from the guards saying that I've been "spamming" or whatever because of that!

2004-12-26 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: I did go to every blasted house individually and sent those notices. Though, now that I'm done, I thinkg we shoudl have started it "greetings!"

2004-12-26 [shotokan_gal]: hehe... oh well. Lets see if it had any effect now

2004-12-27 [HiddenFire]: If after a while there is no response we may have to resort to tracking down and emailing those members. I'm probably going to have to revise the rules as well, to make sure everyone that wants to participate can. I think we might eventually be able to expand this idea into contests and the like... we'll see.

2004-12-27 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: hahah, no redponse, eh?  12 hours later and I've gotten seven messages. one saying they're no longeer a part of this, one saying they'll think about it and the rest saying they've already done it

2004-12-27 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: I think we should just give it some time and see what happens. Oh, did anyone check and make sure I sent people to the right wiki?

2004-12-29 [shotokan_gal]: No longer a part? Well, might they remove themselves from the member list then... instead of having false advertising to their gallery here (grr...)

2004-12-29 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: accually, like I said, there was one person who immediately sent me a message telling me he wasn't a part of this anymore....

2004-12-31 [HiddenFire]: If they aren't a part of this then why is their name still up? I hope people read the rules enough to realize that all they have to do is remove their name from the list. I don't need people on the list who aren't going to honor the rules. >.<

2004-12-31 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: *grins* well, we needn't harass them too much. ;)

2004-12-31 [HiddenFire]: Then it all depends on what my definition of "too much" is. LOL ~_^

2004-12-31 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: heheheh.  Well, as long as we don't be all defensive from the get go, then I think we'll be ok. As long as we still seem like a nice little wiki to join, i tthink we'll stay in business, as it were. ;)

2004-12-31 [HiddenFire]: I was just saying that if you contacted a member who was on the list and they said they no longer participated, they should have removed their name from the list. It's not all that difficult.

2004-12-31 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: I agree with you. If I hadn't deleted all the messages they sent me I'd send him another one telling him to kindly remove his name. :)

2004-12-31 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: of course, I think one thing that will be nice about putting together these tours is that we'll be able to see easier who is actively into this and who is not, and we can message people who are not and ask them what's going on or whatever, if they're not getting comments, or if they're simply inactive on elftown or if they don't care anymore....

2004-12-31 [HiddenFire]: That is a good point. #9 does say that the rules are subject to change. I would not be against some sort of filtering out. But I hope it never comes to that.

2005-01-01 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: yeah, but it'd still be nice to take people off the list who don't want to be here or like, haven't come to elftown for a year and a half. ;) But, I do agree with you, I hope we don't have to filter people out. :)

2005-01-01 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: uh.. I hope i'm not overstepping my boundries, but I have removed [Athene Noctua] from the list, as he was to one who told me he wasn't a part of it anymore. I'm wondering what we might could do about the empty spot on the page...

2005-01-01 [shotokan_gal]: [Athene Noctua] is a she I believe... and according to her page doesn't actually have an elfwood gallery anymore. *shrugs* Don't know if HF wants to shift all the member numbers back by one, or just leave the gap there though...?

2005-01-02 [HiddenFire]: Er... with everything as it is now, just leave a gap. I don't mind that you removed them. Saves me the trouble of having to do it myself. ^_^

2005-01-02 [HiddenFire]: I do completely welcome any help I can get btw. I'm not some kind of dictator, I like to be informed of what's going on but feel free to contribute however you want/can.

2005-01-02 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: ok, cool.  As for [Athene Noctua], I really didn't take the time to look at everyone's bios and whatnot as I sent those messages so I do apologize for any discrepancies. :) Besides, I still ike the rulse where anything not specified as otherwise is "he." I prefer the older, less complicated not-so-worried-about-hurting-anyones-feelings-so-I'll-walk-on-eggshells rules. :D Yeah, simplicity is nice. ;)

2005-01-02 [shotokan_gal]: I suppose people would prefer 'he' as opposed to 'it'... hehe... *has cunningly chosen her username so as not to get that problem* ;)

2005-01-03 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: LOL!   Yeah. [HiddenFire] seems to have had that problem a few times! ;) In case you haven't any Idea what I'm talking about, check his bio. He's a humorous guy, methinks. =)

2005-01-03 [shotokan_gal]: Oh he is... one of the more interesting houses out there to take a stroll through definitely

2005-01-04 [Kaimee]: i say 'they' when i dont know the gender:P muuch easier.

2005-01-04 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: yeah.. but I try hard to keep my writing rules straight, even if I can't talk as well as I write.  I try not to get into bad habits such as changing tenses and calling things plural that are singular, because, like I said, my speechis bad enough, I musn't let my writing fail me too! ;)

2005-01-04 [Kaimee]: 'they' does not always signify plural though. it can be used in the sae form as either gender ('he' or 'she') or 'it'.

2005-01-05 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: Really? That I did not know... cool. :D

2005-01-05 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: AAAHHHHH!!! Does anyone know when the Moderators are coming back from their "holiday?" Alas! 

2005-01-05 [shotokan_gal]: They're on holiday? The ticket queue's going slow (understandably at this time of year), but as far as I can see its still moving...

2005-01-05 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: gah! Whenever I click the "publish changes" button, it says "Sorry, Publish Changes is not possible" and then under it says "Moderators Holiday! Come back at the begining of January. Happy New Year! "

2005-01-05 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: Grrrrrrrrrr......

2005-01-05 [shotokan_gal]: Oh I see... I submitted mine before Christmas. Didn't know about the holiday, though they do take them from time to time

2005-01-05 [shotokan_gal]: Probably won't be long with Christmas and new year over and that

2005-01-06 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: I hope not...

2005-01-07 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: Hey Y'all! I nominated this page on Wiki nominations. Please go and add your support to the nomination!!

2005-02-05 [Li-Ga]: I really glad to see Comment Exchange Members Tour working at Elfwood now. Thanks to people who made it!

2005-02-05 [HiddenFire]: I've got to give [Kshatriya Karahatay] credit for that one. She's been doing a great deal of the work. I think what we need to do is set up some positions for different aspects of the group... first we'll have to break down what all we need and then allocate jobs. Then just to give props to those members I'll include their URL's a few more time (probably just two more times) for all their hard work... that just means they'll come up with greater frequency when people click the random member link. I've been thinking it might be interesting to hold some competitions. The winners would recieve a comment on every last piece of work in a gallery of their choice from me...

2005-02-05 [HiddenFire]: ... and anyone else who wanted to participate. Then they would have their url put down again in the random member link... that way it will double their chances of comming up. I don't know how popular that link is... but I think it's worth it. Perhaps we could hold a banner competition or something. *shrugs* it would be nice to have one. We've been without this whole time... I'm sure a banner would help draw in more members.

2005-02-06 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: i definately think that it would!

2005-02-07 [Li-Ga]: Yep, I think you're right [HiddenFire].

2005-02-24 [Sir Sheep]: Hi there. I was just wondering...is it acceptable to announce updates to one's gallery? The rules do not say anything about that.

2005-02-24 [HiddenFire]: I don't see why that would be a problem... but if it becomes one... then we'll make a seperate page for such things.

2005-02-24 [jojo-kun]: I make a habit of adding the emails of people who leave comments in my gallery to my address book and I make a mass email to tell people my gallery has been updated. It takes a bit of effort to put together, but I think it works alright. No one seems to get angry with me and I tell them in the email that all they have to do is email me and I'll remove them. That's just what I do. Putting it on the wikipage sounds alright too, but I'll stick with my emails.

2005-02-24 [HiddenFire]: Whatever works. I actually just recently set up a mailing list... I need to tell people on EW that they can use it as well...

2005-02-24 [Sir Sheep]: Thanks guys. The mass email does seem a better solution. Since I have yet to build an email list, this one time I will announce it here:

2005-02-24 [Sir Sheep]: I have put up three new drawings in my gallery. It would be lovely if you came by for a visit and had a look at them. :)

2005-02-25 [HiddenFire]: *just realized we're over 100 members* Congrats people! We're officially a decently sized group! ^_^ Now we just need to become more organized and we'll be on our way to be more recognized. ^_^

2005-02-25 [shotokan_gal]: Woo yay! *pops champagne and all that jazz* Now, gotta run off back to me project... yawnsome.

2005-02-25 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: yay for 100+ mambers!  Ok, so wat's going on with that email stuff?  If I could get ahold of that it'd make notifing our members of things a whole lot easier!

2005-02-25 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: man! I hate to report this, but we have only 100 members - #10 asked to be removed and ther eis no #24

2005-02-25 [The Coffee-Prophet]: Damn, but still. 100 members, hot diggety damn.

2005-02-25 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: HEY! EVERYONE!!! WE NEED 3 MORE ENTRIES TO COMPLETE THE NEXT TOUR!! comment exchange members tour

2005-02-26 [HiddenFire]: *shrugs* the numbers should probably be shifted... I can't think of a reason to leave open spaces

2005-02-28 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: ok then....

2005-03-01 [HiddenFire]: Bad news: <diary:510397> needless to say I won't be of much help to anyone within this next week. I don't have much time. I've got stuff to take care of. Bye for now.

2005-03-02 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: ok, all fixed! 

2005-03-06 [HiddenFire]: Because of recent events, as explained in my latest diary entry, I will not be participating in this for at least a few weeks. I'll try and catch up later but I just need to focus on getting college and a job in order. With my father now being the only source of income for this family... I've got to work quite a bit harder to get by. If I get too far behind I will retire from the CE for a while... until I get back on my feet. Until then... I might have to have somone take over some of the stuff for me... I can probably continue to update the random member link... but beyond that... I really need to set my focus elsewhere... at the moment, there are more important things.

2005-03-06 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: Well, good luck then! Hope to see you back soon!

2005-03-09 [smiles200105]: My condolences to you and your family Nathaniel, don't rush back until you can, we can handle ourselves no doubt.

2005-03-23 [HiddenFire]: Allrighty... My luck seems to be superb lately! </sarcasm> My computer decided to take a dive and now It has become little more than a large paperweight. So unless I want to lose a ton of very important files I won't be on the net for a while... that and because of recent events I am no longer getting financial assistance from home... and can no longer afford internet access. For now, I'll just be able to get on from school... and there is little to no way I could actually contribute to the community. So for now, I'm taking a leave of absence. I'll be checking in periodically to make sure it isn't complete anarchy.

2005-03-23 [HiddenFire]: [Kshatriya Karahatay], you've helped out tremendously lately. If you do not want to take over for me, then I'll trust you to find someone. I hate to just dump this on you but I don't have much of a choice... and I trust you.

2005-03-24 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: No worries. I don't know as uch as you do about wiki's and how to make them work, but I think I'll be able to handle it. Best of luck to you, my friend!

2005-03-24 [Von_Lipwig]: If there is anything i can do, just ask. I'm not THAT good with wiki's but i seem to learn so maybe i can help with certain issues. [HiddenFire], i wish you best of luck...

2005-03-24 [Kaimee]: kshatriya, if you need any help with anything wiki-related just ask, I run and maintain a lot of wikis and have plenty of spare time to help those new to the wiki business! :P

2005-03-24 [shotokan_gal]: Good luck HF! Kshatriya, glad to help when you need. (I might tidy up the links on the members list now actually)

2005-03-29 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: Tour number two is up!  Check it out at Comment Exchange Tours!!

2005-03-29 [jojo-kun]: Whee! How exciting!

2005-03-29 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: [shotokan_gal] if you know how to make hose links for the tours so that they open into a small window like they do when clicked on from Elfwood itself, would you let me know?  It just feels so messy this way....

2005-03-29 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: hey, anyone want to make a banner for this place? 

2005-03-29 [kerry555]: I think [jojo-kun]made one!  Cool tour!!!!:)

2005-03-29 [jojo-kun]: yeah it's on my page right now.. I just finished it like a half an hour ago.

2005-03-29 [shotokan_gal]: I don't think we can because of the pseudo html: guide to the pseudo HTML on Elftown. The normal way to do links doesn't work anyway.

2005-03-29 [Kshatriya Karahatay]: I managed to put it here....  Like I said, I'm too wiki illiterate... Why can't we do banners the same way everyone else does them?

2005-03-30 [jojo-kun]: I changed the banner a bit. Added a graphic and moved "comment" over a bit to accomodate it. Please, if anyone has any feedback on it, go right ahead! This *is* the comment exchange after all! Also, try making a banner yourself! It's not that difficult! I can center the banner at the top of this page as well.

2005-03-30 [HiddenFire]: Thanks [jojo-kun]! ^_^, the banner looks great. I'm up at the school paying bills online and checking my email for job oppurtunities and just figured I'de drop in. Glad to see things are moving right along. And [shotokan_gal] is right... ET pseudo html will not allow us to pop up a tour window like that. I suppose it could be brought up in the ET suggestions forum... but I don't see anything like that happening soon... because there would be little to no demand for it. Hopefully I'll have a job in the next few months... and I'll be able to get my own webspace and set us up properly... but that won't be for a while. Thanks for all the help... keep up the good work. ^_^

2005-03-30 [kerry555]: I don't know if its me, but I can't see any banner:S

2005-03-30 [shotokan_gal]: Well, its hosted on photobucket. Occasionally pictures from there don't always show up, wouldn't worry too much.

2005-04-04 [shotokan_gal]: Announcment: many of you probably know of the crash in elfwood over this past weekend. Well, according to discussions on elfwood's livejournal, the last backup will have to be retrieved, and approximately 2 months of updates will be lost. This includes tours and comments on your gallery, so hence some of the comment exchange tours may need to be resubmitted, and some comments that weren't replyed to in time the artist might have lost all reference of. See http://www.livejournal.com/community/elfwood/?1167 for more information.